Terp continues our discussion regarding war and world wide aid. To briefly recap, I wrote a post about world refugee day, and made a case that the U.S.’s priorities are skewed and flawed. I argued that there are other countries that have worse situations than Iraq, yet we felt the need to force democracy in Iraq because of the "bad" things that occur in that country, yet we ignore tons of other countries with similar or worse problems because they have nothing we want.
Terp countered by arguing that the U.S. needs to also look out for its own interests, justifying putting Iraq on top of the "invade these countries" list. Then he asked me if I supported the troops, or moreover, what do I think about "supporting our troops". I answered saying that I don’t support the war or violence in general, but I want them to be as safe as possible.
AND WE CONTINUE!!!!!!
We are, though, capturing and killing terrorists. Invading Iraq has brought recruitment levels in Al-Qaeda to rise to proportions we have never seen before. Americans in Iraq has given Al-Qaeda new life. They are flooding Iraq, which is why it seems that there is an endless supply of enemy – in a country that we would likely have cleared in no time if it weren’t for these foreign fighters.
Terp said this in response to me pointing out that the terrorists were in Afghanistan, not Iraq, yet we invaded Iraq on the basis that they harbored terrorists. Terp makes the point here that there wasn’t a terrorist threat coming from Iraq. We did miss the target, well… Bush lied. I’m sure Terp is right, there are plenty of Al-Qaeda flooding into Iraq no, but that is exactly the problem. Our invasion is bringing more violence into the country, more fighting, more murder and deaths.
We wanted to combat Al-Qaeda but all we are doing is fueling their fire, and making it worse. Was this a mistake?
Oil is a tougher issue – but you can you imagine our lives without it? I don’t know a single person who has changed their habits due to the rising costs of oil. Does that mean that Americans are willing to go to war to secure it? Let me know what you think…
I personally have gotten rid of my car, so my dependency on oil is pretty damn low as a result, and I’m glad, I couldn’t afford gas! But I understand Terp’s point, and its true, we are like drug addicts. We have built our entire system around oil, which is why it was so easy to justify attacking Iraq for their oil, because we need it! It would be like a drug lord justifying to all the addicts the attack of a warehouse of drugs. I don’t think its right just parading around the world taking up resources, or only helping nations who have something to offer us in return. This isn’t the christian way! Thats whats wrong with christianity in this government, its extremely selfish. Anyway, thats another discussion.
I do think Americans are willing to go to war to take over other resources, and I think its terrible. That makes us no better than the conquerers of past. We can’t just run around the world taking what we want. I don’t think we should be having hidden agendas and selfish methods of getting what we want.
It shows me that we have no interest in peace, but rather, an interest in making us the world’s leader. I think we can solve the oil problem internally. I personally know very viable technology that would solve our problems, the only reason it is resisted is because lots of billionaires would lose all their money. You’d be surprised how much truth is hidden because of greed. There were students at my college who built a van that ran on vegetable oil. We can derive energy from almost anything these days.
We have developed amazing new technologies for energy derivation, that can be applied to cars. Again, this would put everyone in oil out of business, and since they are the wealthiest people around, they get to decide that thats not what they want, therefor, thats not what America wants.
I’m not sure I understand. It wasn’t Bush’s true concern, or it ought not be OUR concern? If the latter is true, what do suggest we do? Continue efforts to free nations that harbor terrorists and oil, thereby securing our needs – or focus on countries, with humanitarian assistance, that give us nothing (economically) in return? All countries work in their self-interest? In whose interest do you think America ought to work?
Actually, I was saying that it wasn’t Bush’s true concern. That the suffering of Iraqi people had nothing or very little to do with Bush’s agenda in Iraq, because if ti did, then why pick Iraq out of all the nations with terrible suffering.
Here is my point, there are significantly more terrible atrocities occurring in Africa, children dying. Why do we need that country to pay us in order for us to help them? Thats not our mission, thats now what we say we are all about. Again, that makes us nothing more than mercenaries for hire. Why would anyone want to deny starving children food? Please tell me what we won’t help the night commuters, or the terrible genocide occurring in Sudan. What the hell, why do we have to get something in return?
I just don’t thing America ought to work in its own self interest when parading around pretending to bring freedom to people of other nations. Its all bullshit!
So, in effect, you’ve taken a pacifist stance. This is nearly impossible to argue. You really don’t care about soliders in particularly, you apparently, care for everyone. So saying you "support the troops" is kind of silly. If you have any friends in Iraq, you ought to ask them how they feel about being there. I have several, and actually one more, a girl, who was supposed to be part of our bridal party, who will be leaving a few days before our wedding to deploy for Iraq. And she is looking forward to it. Her husband returned last year, and is looking to go again.
I met a group of soldiers, just returned from Iraq, in a bar in Georgetown (DC) a few weeks ago. One had had his leg blown off by an IED. They said that, while being there was horrible at times, and they could care less about the Iraqis themselves, they took pride in knowing that they may some day be able to return to a free Iraq. They said that they were more grateful than ever for being American and being able to return to such a great country. Most were looking forward to fulifilling another tour…
Most soldiers have been literally brainwashed. They have to be, otherwise, why would they fight? They aren’t fighting for our freedom, so who’s freedom are they fighting for? Iraq? Fine, if they want to believe that that is the reason they are there, then why wouldn’t they be interesting in fighting for the freedom of children in Sudan or fighting the LRA?
I’m not a pacifist in the sense that I’m not the type to get knocked down only to stand up and get knocked down again. I’ve been taking Tae Kwan Do and other forms of martial arts since I was 5. I’ve fought thousand upon thousands of times, competed in tournaments, and defending myself on more than one occasion. If someone broke into my home I would kick the shit out of them. But I wouldn’t kill them unless I was given no other choice. And the soldiers are probably in the same situation. I don’t blame them, they are Bush’s pawns, poor folks who just got fooled. I support the troops in t he sense that I want them to be safe, want them to go home, and to stop fighting. I wish no harm upon them. Whats wrong with that? What is the only alternative? To wish harm upon them? Yu can either wish no harm upon them or harm upon them, there’s no ‘maybe’ category.
I don’t see how these soldiers can take pride in someday returning to a free Iraq. Why would they? Terp said that they didn’t care about the Iraqi people, but they care about their freedom? I don’t get it. They sound awfully confused. Now I know the feeling of being glad to be an American. When spending as much time overseas as I have, there is a great feeling when you walk though American customs to come home. But thats just because its home. Soldiers from other countries I’m sure say the exact same thing about their own country. Very rarely would someone not be relieved to return home, no matter how shitty it looks in comparison to America.
I fear that Bush’s lies have penetrated deeper than I thought, its planted seeds of deceit into the minds of our soldiers, our middle Americans, and many others. But to those of us able to reject it, this war is pretty transparent, and few of us approve.
Very little that is occurring in Iraq is just, and I only wish that Bush hadn’t taken over the presidency after losing the election all those years ago, for I believe that our two tours would still be standing, and the world would have been a much better place.
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