Another Alien Post
First, I’ll begin by saying that this debate with Mister E has been one of the most enjoyable I’ve had here on WIS. Though, we may be winding down, I have to appreciate my distinguished opponent’s ability to limit himself to 1-2 Ad hominems per post. In all seriousness, it has been fun, even though we’re headed towards the logical limits of this debate.
Anyway, Mister E writes:
I never said that the vastness of the Universe is proof that life exists on other planets. In fact, I never said that life on other planets does exist. All I said is that it is highly improbable, if not STATISTICALLY impossible that it doesn’t.
Your position on WIS is that there is Intellient Life on other planets. That’s what the debate’s about. You move it to undecided and then you’re not arguing for that. The debate is being framed by the position you took.
Yikes! Where do I start? If the average solar system size is 100 planets??????? Then there are 100 billion stars per galaxy, and in the entire universe we have 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets.
Let me clarify, Mister E. You stated that there were 100 Billion Solar systems in the galaxy and then later postulated that there were 10 Trillion planets in the Galaxy as part of an argument. You argued that even if the odds were 1 in 10 Trillion that there could be a planet housing intelligent life in every galaxy. I was simply making the point that 1 Trillion planets is far more realistic.
Additionally, Adam cannot invent probabilities. My claim that 1 planet out of a trillion could support life is abitrary. Adam claiming that that is wrong and it should be 1 in a quadrillion has no base and is more or less meaningless.
Not my claim, it was the claim of scientists who studied the necessities of intelligent life and calculated the odds of them appearing on one planet.
I don’t see the point in saying this. I already made it very clear that the universe is a big place. Obviously, we won’t be able to communicate with anybody, or even know that they exist (the distance stars we see are actually just images of their past, since it takes hundreds of millions of years for light to travel to us, we’re looking at stars hundreds of millions of years ago). It would take an awful long time for an instant message to reach another galaxy, longer than we’ve been around for sure.
My point is that we’ll never have anything other than speculation and odds, and never be able to prove anything.
I’m sorry, but that is just stupid. I hate to use a such a strong word, but its warranted here. I know for any intelligent reader I wouldn’t need to explain why, but I will anyway. Receiving sound waves from an alien culture is not a requisite for understanding evolution.
Here’s where I see the problem. Evolution is a process that makes no sense in a short period of time. Certainly, no one would believe that in 100 or even a thousand years, you go from goo to man.
Evolution depends on what Richard Dawkins describes as "lucky chances" through natural selection over the last several billion years. Let us suppose for a moment that in the Andromeda Galaxy there’s an advanced society that’s been around above and beyond the level of 20th Century Earth for millions of years. Does this present a problem for evolutionary theory? You bet. Because if they’ve been generating radio signals for 2 million years, we should have gotten the signals as there’s been enough time for the radio waves to travel through space. Certainly, such a finding would do no favor for a literal reading of Creation, though many people actually advocate for a creation where the days weren’t literal. Evolutionary theory as an explanation for life would breakdown because what’s believable in 5 Billion years is certainly not believe in 2 million.
Indeed, given the estimated age of the Universe used by evolutionists of 13 billion years, we should receive something recognizable. Radio waves travelling through space for more than 5 billion years should have been picked up by SETI long ago. That it hasn’t been picked up would suggest that there are no alien lifeforms for thousands of galaxies around. A younger age of the Earth opens more opportunities, but also makes evolution unworkable.
Exactly. That is my point. There is no evidence that there is a god, or that there are aliens living on other planets. We can only appeal to logic, statistics, and reason.
I would suggest we have a wealth of eyewitness testimony, inferences in nature, etc. to back up a God. Aliens, we really have very little to support.
My faith is in the probability of other life out there, and that discovering such a thing would rid us of the problems conservative Christianity created with its self-centered, hate-mongering, bigoted, anti progressive forcefulness. The imbued imposition of morality and forced obedience is for a world of yore, not for modern times. Religion is a method of control, and is a fantastic way of controlling a mass of people. Imagine everyone being afraid that god would kick their ass if they got out of line.
My friend you need to read your history. The time before Christ included human sacrifice, exposing infants, and grave tyranny on the whole Earth. It was the Christian faith that brought hospitals and institutions of Charity. What you call progressivism isn’t, it is rather a return to a darker time. What has been before shall be again, there is nothing new under the son. -Ecclesiastes.
Indeed. I don’t doubt for a minute that Earth needs to discover something greater that what we are, especially in such a time of violence, greed, and hatred. As a scientist, I know that the Christian god is a myth, an idea that was created not to be believed in literally, but to represent our quest for understanding. It would be silly to think of the entire universe as the playground of the Christian god. I am not adverse to the idea that there is an extremely powerful, inter-dimensional alien being out there with intelligence, but I know that its not Jahweh.
Because you don’t want it to be? How do you know this? What scientific proof leads you to that conclusion?
There is a lot of deaths in this universe. Entire clusters of stars explode, destroyed thousands upon thousands of planets in its wake. Even here on Earth, billions of species have died off, more than the number of people who have ever lived on Earth. If god was in control of all of this, than he would have killed countless living things. Our universe is much more about destruction than anything else. Adam’s god seems to be not so loving as he would have you believe.
Kind of makes an assumption, that there’s life on these other planets. If they’re just rocks who cares? Species die out on Earth because of man and because of sin. Yet, God is the One who will restore and heal. As scripture says, "All creation groaneth and travaileth in pain until now."
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